Have you ever told your Mormon friends that you believe that Jesus saved you and they readily agreed with you? Numerous Christians have shared with me their experience in this — and have been frustrated to no end. They know their Mormon friends believe differently about salvation, but it sure sounds Christian at the surface.
The reason for your frustration is that when you do dig deeper you find that Mormonism defines salvation much differently than Christianity does. When Christians talk about salvation, we are talking about how we can go to heaven because Jesus saved us from the punishment of sin by paying for our sins with his death. On the other hand, most Mormons equate salvation with being resurrected, not going to heaven. When Mormons talk to you about salvation, they think of Jesus saving them from the grave. Jesus has provided a way to save them from physical death. That’s why they can agree with us when we talk about Jesus saving us.
In sharing their belief about salvation, I don’t think that most Mormons are not trying to be deceptive. This is simply the definition that they were taught and raised up with in the church. Consider this quote from a book for small children. “Jesus was the first to be resurrected and because of him, all the people on the earth will someday be resurrected. That is why we call him ‘Savior’. He saved the world from death. He is the resurrection and the life.” (Talks for Tots, p. 113)
The word, “salvation”, is just one of numerous words that are defined differently by Mormons and Christians. Therefore, it is essential, when talking with your Mormon friends, to carefully define key Christian terms and right them down as a reference. That would be the loving and respectful thing to do.
My name is Mark Cares and I encourage you to speak the truth in love to your Mormon friends, neighbors and family members.
Blog RSS Feed
Mark
The bible is exquisitely clear. 1 Peter 3:18-4:6. How could it be any clearer? While He was yet in the spirit world after His crucification Christ went to the spirits who lived during Noah’s time to preach to them. Why would He have done such a thing if their days on earth determined where they would spend eternity? Why would He have done that if His atonement covered everything – if there was no need for anything else? Why would it be necessary to preach to those people if there was no hope for them? Why would He preach to them if there was no repentance after death and thereby the ability to improve their situation post mortem? I suggest because salvation only means to resurrect and that by repentance the dead can improve their lot after death. That is why the Savior went to them – to preach to them the same things to them that He preached on earth.
I know some biblical commentators will say Christ didn’t descend to hell, but rather He went to them after His ascension. But the Greek for went is poreuomai which is used 117 times in the bible as go, and 11 times as depart, 9 times as walk. The Greek for prison is phulake which is used to mean a place guarded by sentinels. These people (spirits of the dead) were not asleep but were conscious and able to interact. There would be no reason for Christ to preach to them otherwise. These people were not in Heaven and they did not sleep. If they were not in hell or heaven why were they in this prison if all they were doing was awaiting condemnation? If they were not awaiting the resurrection of a physical body why were they not in hell already? Clearly Peter intended to say Christ approached these spirits who were in prison with the divine purpose of preaching the Gospel to them, the same Gospel that says to repent and accept the Gospel and Jesus as the Christ and be retrieved from the awful fate that awaits them otherwise.
Jack:
In 1 Peter 3:19 the Greek word translated preach is kerusso which literally means “herald” or “announce publicly”. It is not euaggelizo which means to “preach the gospel”. 1 Peter 3:19 does not say Jesus preached the gospel to those spirits. It doesn’t tell us what he announced to them or why he announced it. Could he not have announced his victory to them, not to bring them to repentance, but to emphasize the completeness of his victory? What a wonderful assurance it is that Jesus so totally vanquished the devil that he could hold a victory procession in hell itself! See Colossians 2:15.
If “salvation means only to resurrect” why does the Bible so often connect salvation with believing? Romans 1:16 and Ephesians 2:8-9 are just two of many such examples. Does that mean only believers will be resurrected since salvation comes through faith?
Actually kerusso is used as preach 51 times, publish 5 times and proclaim twice in the NT. So using it in its most oft used sense, the Savior preached to them.
Romans 1:16 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.” In this case, the theme is believing in the Gospel as a means to salvation. I suggest that means in its entirety not just pieces. Ergo, all the principles of the gospel as taught not just one part. Lots of people believe Jesus is the Christ but don’t go beyond that. Just believing in and of itself doesn’t get the job done.
Ephesians 2:8-98 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” That is pretty clear and is what we LDS believe too. No matter what we do, it is Christ’s atonement that saves us. But if you take its most literal and exclusicve sense, what do we do with “For we are saved by hope…”(Rom 8:24), “…the gospel…by which also ye are saved…”(1 Cor 15:1-3)”we shall be saved by his life” (Rom 5:10). Mormons take it one step and suggest we actually have to do something. We believe we must be obedient too i.e. “faith without works”. But I think we kind of got off track. Were not we talking about salvation vis a vie resurrection? We aren’t so far apart on this one. If you want to come over to http://mormonthing.wordpress.com/ I would be glad to go a little more in depth on this with you. I would do it here but it works better for me there. And you would have a couple other like thinkers to support your way of thinking. Just let it all rip.
Jack
Mormons and Baptists are a lot closer than some would think. Otherwise, why would 300,000 Baptists have converted? My sense is we exchange members because we are alike in so many ways. We may be more alike than makes either of us comfortable.
The green Jello and root beer is on me.
On kenusso: I have no problem with translating it as “preach” but it does not follow that it means “preach the gospel”. For example Gal 5:11 circumcision is what was preached; in Acts 15:21 Moses was preached. 1 Peter 3:19 doesn’t say that Jesus preached the gospel to them.
ButI agree. We are off track. The difference is how we define gospel As you state, Mormons take it one step further and say we have to do something. That one step (I would say official LDS doctrine spells out more than one step)makes all the difference in the world and separates Mormonism from Christianity. The Bible clearly links salvation with faith. Look at John 3:16-18. No mention of works or obedience there. Just belief.
But I am still curious on how you can equate salvation with resurrection, when Mormonism teaches that all will be resurrected regardless of faith but the Bible links salvation with faith?
It is easily understood when you look at “salvation” as universal. “Exaltation” however is the result of obedience (which is not universal) when coupled with the resurrection. Admittedly the two are used interchangeably but they really are different. This may be explained better by relating the story of the drowning man. The Savior throws the rope to him from the shore but the man has to grab and hold on to it while being pulled a shore. Everyone will be resurrected and get a body just as the Savior had when He was resurrected and ascended. But not everyone will be exalted. Some will be cast into outer darkness (eternal damnation) even though they have been resurrected. By exalted I mean partakers of Christ’s full inheritance i.e. theosis*. That is why Christ was preaching to those in spirit prison. Those who had never heard of Christ or the Gospel should by all rights get an equal chance to learn of the Gospel and accept or reject it.
You say you are having trouble with Christ preaching the gospel to those in prison. But why else would He be there? What would He be preaching if it wasn’t the Gospel? It is His nature. It is His calling to save mankind or all who will listen and accept. It seems to me He would most likely continue on the other side what He was doing here given there is still work to be done. I think He may very well address those who are condemned to permanent separation and eternal damnation but not until the end of the earth and we have a long way to go before we get there.
Yes, obedience may sound too simple for what is expected, but disregarding the behaviors outlined in scripture doesn’t work either. They are not throw-a-ways or optional. At least as we understand it.
One more thing-
*We may have a different view on whether theosis means god-like or godhood. But Mormons do not believe it means God as co-equal with God the Father. Some commentators think we are polytheists and that we believe in more than one God. That isn’t exactly correct. We believe as the bible says that there are many beings who are gods but there is only one God – the Eloheim. Scripture confirms that. The Hebrew is “Berosheit baurau, Eloheim ait aushamayeen vehau auraits.” Translated it means “The head one of the Gods said, Let us make a man in our own image.” Some translate Paul’s 1 Corinthians 8:5 comments as meaning pagan gods. However the Hebrew translation of Genesis above is clearer. Mormons believe it means gods as in sons of God the Father or those who partake of Christ’s inheritance in its fullness.
In advance, I’d like to apologize. I did not take the time to read all of the comments, so forgive me if I repeat something that has already been said.
As a member of the LDS Church, I hope I can help to clear up this definition of “salvation.”
When we say the word “salvation” in the LDS Church, it can mean many different things. As you already mentioned, it could mean salvation from physical death. However, we also use the word salvation to mean salvation as sin. This is similar to the definition you gave, “When Christians talk about salvation, we are talking about how we can go to heaven because Jesus saved us from the punishment of sin by paying for our sins with his death.” We, too, believe that this is salvation.
If you’re familiar with the Book of Mormon, a good verse on this is Mosiah 3:18, “…believe that salvation was, and is, and is to come, in and through the atoning blood of Christ, the Lord Omnipotent.” The atoning blood of Christ will cleanse us of our sins. Thus we see that we do actually equate salvation with having our sins paid for :)
I hope this clears up the definition a little. God bless.
I’m assuming you are referring to Genesis 1:26. If so, I don’t know what you are translating especially “the head one of the Gods.” I pulled out my Hebrew Bible and it is straightforward “God (Elohim) sai”
Now that you are brought up the subject, I am curious on how you explain the many passages in the Old Testament that talk about the LORD God where Jehovah and Elohim are combined into one name. (i.e. Genesis 2:7) How does that square with the LDS teaching that equates Elohim with Heavenly Father and Jehovah with Jesus?
Mark
Genesis 2:7 ” 7 And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
According to Strongs #430 the principle definition of the Greek, as it is used here, is Elohiym which means God or gods. But I am not sure that is what you were after. Correct me if I am wrong but the big question seems to be how to reconcile the Trintarian view of the Trinity with what the bible is clearly saying about Jesus Christ, God the Father and the Holy Ghost as sepertate beings. Am I right?
Mark 13:32 says God the Father knew someting even Christ didn’t know. “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.” This says quite clearly the two are different beings. John 14:28 confirms it too. “Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.John 20:17 says it too – “Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.”
So – to answer your question “How does that square with the LDS teaching that equates Elohim with Heavenly Father and Jehovah with Jesus?”. If I understood your question correctly I would say the bible says so. That was very good question Mark.
Mark
On the 19th you said “But I am still curious on how you can equate salvation with resurrection, when Mormonism teaches that all will be resurrected regardless of faith but the Bible links salvation with faith?” The Book of Mormon is unequivocal on the issue of salvation by the grace of Christ. 2 Nephi 10:24 “remember, after ye are reconciled unto God that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved”. There are many other passages as well. But biblical passages say so too.
Christ admonished us concerning repentance in Matthew 4:17; Luke 12:3, 5. Matthew 11:20-24 talks about condemnation for not repenting. He required his disciples to follow his teachings and commandments (Matthew 7:24-27; Luke 6:46-49) and said that they would be rejected at the Day of Judgment if they did not do so (Matthew 7:21-23). While the Book of Mormon teaching that we are “saved by grace after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23), may conflict with the theology of some modern Christian groups, it is consistent with Jesus’ teachings in the New Testament. http://farms.byu.edu/faq.php?id=22&table=questions.
Mark
I left a bit out. In conclusion, it seems quite clear that faith alone is not sufficent. You have to do something too. We have to obey Christ’s commandments otherwise mere faith is meaningless.
Just a couple of points. I have found that many LDS people don’t understand and thus misrepresent the Christian teaching of the Trinity. We do believe that there are three separate persons in the Trinity. That is the tri part of the word. I don’t believe that the Father is the Son or the Son is the Holy Ghost etc. But at the same time that the Bible talks about three distinct persons, it also describes each separately as God, and then on top of it, says there is only one God. 3 distinct and equal persons but one God! I will readily admit that I can’t begin to fathom that. But, this might surprise you, I am glad that I can’t. I don’t want a God that I can understand. I want a God that it is so much greater than myself. I find a lot of comfort in the fact that my God is so great that I can’t begin to fathom him.
I have to also disagree with your statement that “we are saved after all we can do may conflict with the theology of some modern Christian groups”. That conflicts with historic Christianity, and most importantly, with the teachings of Jesus and the Bible. But I am glad that you brought that up. That is by far the most important difference between Mormonism and Christianity. And I do not believe it is a minor difference either. I am sure that you don’t see it as a minor difference either. As you say, you believe faith alone is not sufficient. I, and millions of Chnristians, believe it is. Because of this and other differences, I have to wonder why the LDS Church is trying so hard to identify itself as Christian. Maybe the question I need to ask you is how do you see me? Do you see me as a fellow Christian?